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With respect, a dissenting view. - Wemyss's Appalling Hobby:
From the Party Guilty of Committing 'Gate of Ivory, Gate of Horn'
With respect, a dissenting view.

You know, or I should hope that you know, that my friends-list is made up of people whom I like and whom I respect.


That doesn’t mean that I don’t consider some of the occasionally damned-fool things that they say and believe, to be rubbish.


The Times has a leading article that is worth your consideration.  (They also report on why it is that Hizbollah and its stranglehold on the government of the Lebanon are the true enemy to peace.  I say we stand aside and let the Israelis settle the matter once for all.)


And, following on from the leader, Gerard Baker talks a good deal of sense about the terrorists: far more sense than that Yank twat Yglesias does, say.


Finally, I would say to my American friends who are embarrassing themselves with inane conspiracy theories: this is an investigation centred in the UK and partly driven by intelligence from Southwest Asia.  Neither the jihadists, nor the Met generally, nor Special Branch, nor Five, nor Six, care about you or your Joe Lieberman issues: certainly not enough to conspire to affect domestic Yank politics by shutting down world aviation.  Do try to be sensible.

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18 comments or Leave a comment
backinblack From: backinblack Date: August 11th, 2006 01:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
This is vaguely off the subject, but. My personal favorite moment during the endless discussion of the last day or so: an American military news correspondent went so far as to compliment the British on their l33t infiltrating skillz, but then they went on to talk about how the US was involved with the tracking or something (money tracking? I forget, it was that stupid). "WE WERE INVOLVED, WE ARE DOING SOMETHING, WE ARE USEFUL; AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!" -.- Stfu and go back to complaining about not being able to bring drinks on airplanes now, fools.

wemyss From: wemyss Date: August 13th, 2006 01:15 pm (UTC) (Link)

Well, to be fair...

... the Yanks wd be a good deal more helpful - elint, the money trail, and so on - if their newspapers didn't immediately leak every useful programme or bit of evidence for domestic, party purposes.
From: lunaedraconis Date: August 11th, 2006 03:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
Neither the jihadists, nor the Met generally, nor Special Branch, nor Five, nor Six, care about you or your Joe Lieberman issues: certainly not enough to conspire to affect domestic Yank politics by shutting down world aviation.

Um, what?

wemyss From: wemyss Date: August 13th, 2006 01:17 pm (UTC) (Link)

Oh, a lot of leftish blogs in the US....

... were on about how this was all a Bush ministry fake and tied to the election in Connecticut.
sgt_majorette From: sgt_majorette Date: August 11th, 2006 03:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
"Neither the jihadists, nor the Met generally, nor Special Branch, nor Five, nor Six, care about you or your Joe Lieberman issues: certainly not enough to conspire to affect domestic Yank politics by shutting down world aviation. Do try to be sensible."

Sensible? Not the way we roll here, babe. The US of A is the sun, and all you other pathetic, backward losers are mere asteroids which occasionally get sucked in by our gravitational pull and burn up in our atmosphere.

On the other hand, most of us don't care either. And you guys don't get to take the high road either. Two words: Staffordshire spaniels. So there.

By the way, my spellchecker doesn't believe in jihadists. It thinks you mean headsets.
wemyss From: wemyss Date: August 13th, 2006 01:18 pm (UTC) (Link)

You realise...

... that the jihadists will try explosive headsets next.
From: tree_and_leaf Date: August 11th, 2006 03:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
Good Lord - what have people been saying? That sounds quite an absurd theory.

I have my own mild conspiracy theory, admittedly, in that I think Reid might have known there was something in the wind before making his 'you just don't get it' speech', which came very pat, but I don't think that had anything to do with how intelligence and the police handled the investigation and the arrest, and I may be completely wrong. At any rate, it's heartning to see intelligence and the police doing such a sterling job .

Actually, I have severe reservations about what the Israelis are doing in Lebanon, on the purely pragmatic grounds that it doesn't seem to be doing anything other than to increase support for Hisbollah. But I quite agree that whatever the shortcomings of Israel, Hisbollah are an unpleasant group without whom the world would be a better place.
shezan From: shezan Date: August 11th, 2006 04:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
it doesn't seem to be doing anything other than to increase support for Hisbollah.

At any rate, that's the line the Hezbollah propaganda machine is assiduously spinning.
ellie_nor From: ellie_nor Date: August 11th, 2006 07:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
It also just makes sense. If you had no means to leave your village because the Israeli army had bombed the **** out of all the surrounding roads, and were in the process of bombing any and all vehicles that tried to go out on the roads and that same Israeli army then dropped leaflets on you telling you you had two days to leave your village before they bombed the **** out of your home and the only semblance of social care in your village since the first Beirut war had been Hisbollah, you might be inclined to take a different view of things than we, in our comfortable situations here in Western Europe/North America/Oceania, are prone to take.

The same goes for the other side of the coin - being someone whose people has faced unmitigated hatred and attempts to wipe you out for the past two thousand and more years, finally having a homeland in your view returned to you but knowing that every bordering country wants you not to exist and has in the past tried to invade your country to stop it existing and knowing that as much as you might like to behave otherwise you can't help but view any Muslim or Arab as a potential suicide bomber whose gelignite has your name on it can't be much fun either.

I ceased being able to take sides regarding the Middle East years ago. I very rarely even begin to talk about it because it's too painful. All sides have legitimate grievances and histories of oppression. All sides have caused untold pain, grief and misery. I just wish those politicians who want to be seen to be 'doing something about it' would make at least an attempt to take both sides' grievances and atrocities seriously. But that's not going to happen.
From: tree_and_leaf Date: August 11th, 2006 09:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes: the whole thing is the most appalling bloody mess, and however one might like to be able to point out one side as being Good and one side as being Bad, it's impossible. True of almost every conflict, of course, but perhaps more so here than most.
wemyss From: wemyss Date: August 13th, 2006 01:20 pm (UTC) (Link)

Absurdity: the mixture as prescribed.

Whilst even the Grauniad were detailing a year-long investigation, some leftish Yank bloggers - all right, most Yank bloggers on the Left - were screeching that it was all a plot connected with a local election in New England. Twats.
shezan From: shezan Date: August 11th, 2006 04:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
Excellent leader. I especially liked "A virulent strain that mixes testosterone and a nihilistic theology.">

And had you read this?

(Oh, and, Joe Lieberman? Where, what, when, WTF?)
wemyss From: wemyss Date: August 13th, 2006 01:24 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yes, I had seen that.

jamoche From: jamoche Date: August 11th, 2006 06:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
American airport security exists primarily to make us think we need airport security. And it works - whenever someone on metaquotes makes a joke about the current situation, somebody starts whinging that it isn't funny and are you really willing to risk your life for coffee (obviously not coffee drinkers, because duh).

They've confiscated nail files, stopped random people (because choosing on looks might be racist), x-rayed shoes, and found exactly what? And then the reports come out that a big problem on 9/11 was lack of communication between the military and the airlines, but that was not mentioned because "How good would it have looked if there was a total breakdown in communication and nothing worked right?" - but the first step in fixing a problem is recognising what it is, and the problem is not with nail files or shoes.

(I'm still miffed that I got stopped last time I went through security, because I grew up around airports - Mom was a Customs inspector - and I used to smirk at the people who didn't know how to get through quickly. Next time I'm so wearing shoes with metal bits and trousers with zips and buckles, because if I'm going to get pulled over, there *will* be a reason for it.)
jamoche From: jamoche Date: August 11th, 2006 08:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
Not that I think we don't need security or anything, just that there's a lot of unnecesssary fuss (nail files, honestly - anyone capable of causing damage with one is just as capable of doing so without) - the biggest problem with the pre-9/11 security was that they didn't follow all the rules they had.

Now they have even more rules, but the people are no better trained than they were. I've heard stories that in places they're dumping all liquids into buckets together - as if that's not a recipe for bad chemical reactions even if all they've got are ordinary things.
wemyss From: wemyss Date: August 13th, 2006 01:29 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yes, well, the exercise is fundamentally unserious.

In no small part because it is, as you say, hampered by political correctness.

I mean, if all these attacks since the late 1990s had been the work of a splinter group of Wee Frees in partnership with, oh, Ian Paisley, say, I can assure you that most of Clan Wemyss would support having security target Ulstermen, Scots, men in kilts....
darkthirty From: darkthirty Date: August 11th, 2006 09:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Actually, the weirdest thing is that people act and talk as if there were some intellectual solution, some equation, that would convince everyone of the right direction to go, in the middle east, and once it was stated finally, the right side would be forever visible, etched in stone as deeply as the Christian's commandments, and everything would be justified from then on.

Of course, that's exactly the kind of magic neither I, nor Rowling, believes in.

So, sorry, I disagree with you, and with anyone, who thinks there's a right side in that conflict. It is not a matter of right. It is a matter that ALL voices of moderation, in Israel and in Lebanon and Palestine (Palestinian areas) are silenced, often forcibly. The mainstream in Isreal slams and slanders Arab/Israeli peace groups as viciously as Palestinian radicals abhor those who want to truly work with Isreal.

As I mentioned in another post today - the arguements about terrorism/war/civilian/military are completely irrelevant. All wars kill civilians, almost all of them PRIMARILY. No different from terrorism. The nation state is the new absolute, the new religion, if you will. Well, that's a religion I reject as I do all others. Humanity is my nation.
wemyss From: wemyss Date: August 13th, 2006 01:25 pm (UTC) (Link)

Well, you see, we do agree on one thing.

And that is that we do not agree, and never shall do.
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